Great stuff, Claire. I am a fan of ancient Greek theater, where the players wear a mask, the "Persona", from which our term "personality" is derived. After a lifetime (42 yrs.) as a practicing clinical psychiatrist/addictionist/recovered alcoholic-addict/childhood trauma survivor, I have, in my 70's, come to the conclusion that Anna Freud was ahead of her time when she wrote "The Ego and Its Mechanisms of Defense", and Alfred Adler was too, with his concept of personality "compensations" for our deep psychic deficiencies. We, you included, live in toxic culture and in chaotic times, so little wonder that so many of us are deeply fearful and closed down emotionally, as well as demonstrating the defensive compensations that we desperately need just o survive from moment to moment. As any well trained and experienced psychoanalyst knows, attacking ego defenses (compensations) head on is a fool's errand and can only frighten them into more deeply defended postures. How well I know this from participating in thousands of 12-step meetings over 26+ yrs. and finding escape in alcohol, pot, and nature another 25 yrs.
I respect and admire your courage, which reminds me of myself as a 3rd yr. med student at Wisconsin when I went through my first inpatient psychiatry rotation, was blown away with the courage and beauty of my fellow sufferers, and, perhaps not unlike yourself, discovered the true path to freedom from traumatic compensations through personal honesty in a supportive environment with fellow travelers. Beyond that experience of being opened-up like a can of sardines, I eventually found myself faced with "the gift of desperation" on numerous occasions and had no other choice than to reachout to a spiritual power beyond my my limited self awareness, for salvation and the "protection and care" I did not receive in my childhood or anywhere else in out trauma filled predatory toxic culture. You appear to be on a similar path, but know this: you are not alone and only compassionate regard for others can help them on their journey as well.
Thank you for your honesty and courage. My very best wishes for you as you travel. Namaste'
Interesting… I do know, in my experience anyway, that cruelty seems to be the one form of strength (or source of personal power) they recognize… though they don’t appear to recognize the shame that underwrites these ‘defenses’… they seem to become intoxicated by their own cruelty.
But if you speak of their vulnerability/fallibility this is deeply threatening, judging by the extreme darvo-like (or severe passive-aggressive) defenses.
Yes, this can certainly be true for a narcissist, especially a malignant narcissist. I think in most dysfunctional family systems though, you will find projection and you will find limited ability to deal with feelings and emotions even without narcissism. And vulnerability feels threatening, especially if it touches their defenses.
So this fear of feelings can result more from possible failures of containment or processing and not from outright abuse or narcissistic attacks or projections? Perhaps from the need to prop up a more fragile family member, a parent for example?
My understanding would be that projections of weakness would be a shaming tactic.
Can you point me to good text to flesh this out further? I feel my understanding of this is one-dimensional.
So, I’m using these definitions as a clinician, and how they show up as defenses. Projection, in this case, is a disowning of something the person cannot tolerate in themselves. It’s fair to say that unless we actually ask a person what they are telling and thinking we are always interpreting. So maybe when we are being empathetic we are interpreting someone’s feeling state, then aligning with it. But empathy actually requires you to ask, understand and as much as you can know about another person’s experience and then be with them and feel with them in that moment. If you are interpreting someone else’s experience, without asking, there is a good chance you are getting it wrong. Projection has a different quality. It’s like a deflection and pushing away. “It’s not me, it’s you.” Do you do see what is there, but you ascribe it to someone else.
For example:
Sarah is secretly jealous of her coworker Lisa's recent promotion. However, Sarah doesn't want to admit these feelings to herself because she considers jealousy a negative trait. Instead of acknowledging her own jealousy, Sarah starts to believe and tell others that Lisa is jealous of her.
In this scenario:
1. Sarah's true feeling: Jealousy towards Lisa
2. Sarah's projection: Believing Lisa is jealous of her
By projecting her own jealousy onto Lisa, Sarah avoids confronting her uncomfortable feelings and maintains her self-image as someone who doesn't experience jealousy.
Let me dive into your questions about narcissists a bit later after my day is over. 😊
This example demonstrates how projection allows people to cope with difficult emotions by attributing them to others, often without realizing they're doing it.
Would you like me to provide more examples or explain the concept of projection further?
So, I have narcissistic parent and if you criticize them they respond by saying “You hate me” or “You want me to die.” Which I take to literally be what their unconscious feeling toward me is.
And then, in ‘projective identification’ terms, by continuing to relentlessly bait and manipulate you do start to feel that way…
I guess the other form of ‘projection’ I was thinking of was more like transference.
Example: my father was always quietly angry at me, or use silence to punish, so when when I encounter someone quiet I fear they are angry with me, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your generosity! And will not trouble you with more questions.
Though, if you did have any thoughts on the health disparities between narcissists and their targets in relation to the way they may or may not carry burdens of shame/guilt I would be very interested!
Health disparities between narcissists and their targets in relation to carrying burdens of shame and guilt - that’s a GREAT topic for a post!
What you describe regarding your parents’ responses could be a projection, could be projective identification, and is likely related to their deep feelings of toxic shame. At the core is a deep sense of shame that cannot be touched because it feels like annihilation. They lack the ego strength to tolerate criticism. So they project it out.
You are absolutely right that a narcissist cannot hold multiple perspectives, nor can they think or see in shades of grey. There is usually black and white thinking and an all good/all bad split. The bad part gets projected out onto someone else.
What may also be true (but more research is needed) is that narcissists have lower levels of what we call mirror neurons. We know this to be true for psychopaths. Mirror neurons are the building blocks for empathy. And they are developed by being seen, held, reflected - so the reciprocity and back and forth between mother and infant and then later a toddler feeling seen and heard in their feelings, desires, etc. I’m giving you a sloppy description, but ultimately, some people have more mirror neurons than others therefore they are more empathic. But like everything else in a human body there is what you are born with and your environment. So a loving, nurturing caretaker who “sees you” helps your mirror neurons to develop. Mirror neurons help us to understand what another person is thinking/feeling/doing. If we have fewer of them, we don’t do it as well. I imagine this is what allows people to have less of a conscience when they inflict harm on another. But it’s one layer only.
Projections are often not conscious processes. They CAN be. So a malignant narcissist or a psychopath may very deliberately project and scapegoat with the intention of inflicting harm. The rest of the world usually isn’t aware they are projecting and it can be quite common. Some people are more prone to projection and others are more prone to introjection, which is taking on someone else’s projection as true. Usually those who are more empathic fall into this category.
And yes, sometimes projection happens to prop up or defend another more fragile family member (this usually becomes scapegoating). So someone who is actually quite strong gets labeled as weak. I think the shaming (and invalidation too!) are inherent in the statement. Whether or not you are projecting, telling someone they are weak is putting them down, and suggesting there is something wrong with them, which is shaming them.
Yes, I basically see projections as identifications (I am, you are, this is etc) based on interpretations.
My difficulty in talking about this is that I take all interpretations to be forms of projection that are either correct or mistaken. So I see empathy as based in projections.
When I started, I understood the original meaning: projection is to see what isn’t “there”… but somehow drifted into this other view vis-a-vis Buddhism or brain science.
(I suppose there is also a difference between projecting what “is” or what “could be” the reality in a situation. )
My understanding is that a narcissist is not fully conscious of the harm they do because it is justified by the delusion of being harmed and a victim. This allows them to enjoy harming and not feel even conflicted. Proper empathy would sabotage this unconscious operation.
This inability to feel conflicted forces them to project all the conflict outside into the nearest actors; and these roles are as lacking in nuance as the narcissist’s inability to integrate his or her self-parts etc.
Children are the most receptive to these assigned roles for obvious reasons, and the most damaged by them.
Would you say that the narcissist’s projections are then the evacuated parts of introjects?
Again to minimize internal tension/conflict?
They don’t just minimize, they seem to need to eliminate it entirely.
They don’t ever ‘lose sleep’ thinking they may have wronged someone, but only if they have been wronged…
The weird thing is that, though they seem to identify as “victims,” they don’t suffer in the way many of their victims do, from the physiological symptoms of prolonged stress and internalized shame.
They tend to be hypochondriacs instead, complaining about the most benign and commonplace ailments as if they were life-threatening and narcissist the most cursed for having been ‘targeted.’
Has the shame of the narcissist been transmogrified? Or does the personality form around a void so as to not allow any to ever enter in?
Maria said estrangement above, which has a negative connotation, however, why not treat them (in laws, relatives) in a 'distanced way'? Think of them as you would a friend's family (really, not your problem). The root of the word family is famulus (servant), I feel that women need to protect their space by having as little contact as possible with extended family. It's already hard work enough to deal with spouses in a straight marriage. Honestly, just say no and see them once a year.
I meant, women already do everything for everyone, the thought of wasting time and energy with your in laws makes me cringe. Save your energy for those who really matter.
Oct 18·edited Oct 18Liked by Claire Pichel, MA, LCSW
Absolutely brilliant, Claire. You are spot on with it.
Not only do such people see vulnerability as weakness, they also see it as a golden opportunity to either mould you to their liking while you're open, or to attack you while your sore spots are exposed. And it goes even deeper, I noticed. If you force them to communicate authentically or set boundaries with them, they might covertly punish you at a later stage.
I've come to learn that it's futile trying to do the 'heavy lifting' in their presence. All they'll do is push you over and enjoy the weights collapsing on top of you. Perhaps that's too absolutist of me to say. It's still a work in progress.
Thank you for writing this. And keep up the 'training'!:)
Thanks JH! I had not thought of that - being punished covertly at a later stage for forcing authentic communication or setting boundaries. That’s exactly what happens.
I think you are probably right about not doing the heavy lifting. I see it as engaging in reciprocity. I can do all of the work but only some of the time. If we can’t both share the load, then it’s not healthy l. I’m not willing to pull all of the weight. And I’m especially not willing to be punished for it. But I’m also a work in progress!
One thought I often have is, how far is that person likely to progress with a capable therapist? If the answer is hardly, then what power do I have to progress with them?
Of course when you've know that person for a long period then you might sense you have the rapport to influence them in a positive direction. I've just been burnt too many times. This is most definitely a case of choosing your battles wisely. With what I know now about narcissistic personalities, and how rigid they can be, I'm very selective with my battles, while being mindful that cynicism doesn't take us very far.
Regarding the covert punishment, I'm working on a new article about that. I feel like it's not explored much, mainly because people who partake in it are very patient, and know JUST the right time and the right way to push a button to hurt you. Because it's so far removed from the original 'insult', and because the punishment targets the sorest point they can find, you have no idea what happened. You just wake up from the trigger hours or days later dazed and confused.
Sometimes rapport can help to influence a person. It’s at the heart of any good therapeutic relationship. And knowing someone well implies there is trust and intimacy. It’s difficult to build that kind of relationship with people who have strong narcissistic tendencies. Therapists rarely see narcissists show up in their offices because they don’t think anything is wrong them. That makes any conflict in the relationships they have pretty unworkable. It also makes it hard to progress in therapy. People show up in therapy because they hurt, and because they understand that something in their lives isn’t working for them, and they are willing, to one degree or another, to explore it and try to change their behavior and/or their situation. It’s pretty amazing to bear witness to it.
I think you are so right about picking your battles. I struggle with this. I will fight every single one and exhaust myself.
It can be difficult to grasp when you are being taken for a ride by someone who has zero interest in being influenced or in changing. The moment it sinks in, which can take years, is enlightening in the most painful possible way.
I imagine therapists have that realisation often with certain clients. My approach is to treat everyone as though they are capable of achieving change on their own. I can provide tips and pointers, but will never emotionally invest myself in their growth. That's up to them.
For those who deeply seek to change and grow, however, coming along with them on that journey is incredibly rewarding. That's where gifts such as yours are so important.
Couldn't help but think while reading this of that scene in the film 'Spencer' where Princess Diana begins eating gigantic pearls from a soup bowl at dinner. That'd be me... (great article - restacking!)
Thank you Claire, I needed to read this today ❤️🩹💪
Layered on top of all of this is when you choose to estrange rather than participate (as I did), it brings up more layers of self-worth, guilt, and shame not only from the dysfunctional family system, but from years of societal conditioning.
I am so grateful I am working through it and have found amazing friends who are my family now.
I hear you. I love the way you talk about not participating in it anymore. That's a very empowering way of looking at it. And yes, estrangement can bring up layers of additional negative feelings. I think understanding the process of projection is helpful for creating and taking the space needed to gain perspective and heal.
What I’d get is “you’re too sensitive!”
Same thing as fragile, weak, etc.
Great stuff, Claire. I am a fan of ancient Greek theater, where the players wear a mask, the "Persona", from which our term "personality" is derived. After a lifetime (42 yrs.) as a practicing clinical psychiatrist/addictionist/recovered alcoholic-addict/childhood trauma survivor, I have, in my 70's, come to the conclusion that Anna Freud was ahead of her time when she wrote "The Ego and Its Mechanisms of Defense", and Alfred Adler was too, with his concept of personality "compensations" for our deep psychic deficiencies. We, you included, live in toxic culture and in chaotic times, so little wonder that so many of us are deeply fearful and closed down emotionally, as well as demonstrating the defensive compensations that we desperately need just o survive from moment to moment. As any well trained and experienced psychoanalyst knows, attacking ego defenses (compensations) head on is a fool's errand and can only frighten them into more deeply defended postures. How well I know this from participating in thousands of 12-step meetings over 26+ yrs. and finding escape in alcohol, pot, and nature another 25 yrs.
I respect and admire your courage, which reminds me of myself as a 3rd yr. med student at Wisconsin when I went through my first inpatient psychiatry rotation, was blown away with the courage and beauty of my fellow sufferers, and, perhaps not unlike yourself, discovered the true path to freedom from traumatic compensations through personal honesty in a supportive environment with fellow travelers. Beyond that experience of being opened-up like a can of sardines, I eventually found myself faced with "the gift of desperation" on numerous occasions and had no other choice than to reachout to a spiritual power beyond my my limited self awareness, for salvation and the "protection and care" I did not receive in my childhood or anywhere else in out trauma filled predatory toxic culture. You appear to be on a similar path, but know this: you are not alone and only compassionate regard for others can help them on their journey as well.
Thank you for your honesty and courage. My very best wishes for you as you travel. Namaste'
Gregg Miklashek, MD
Here is the article on Greek Tragedy and narcissism that I mentioned to you in my previous comment.
https://open.substack.com/pub/jhsimon/p/what-narcissists-and-greek-tragedy?r=49itu7&utm_medium=ios
Here is the article I mentioned to you in my previous comment: https://open.substack.com/pub/jhsimon/p/what-narcissists-and-greek-tragedy?r=49itu7&utm_medium=ios
Interesting… I do know, in my experience anyway, that cruelty seems to be the one form of strength (or source of personal power) they recognize… though they don’t appear to recognize the shame that underwrites these ‘defenses’… they seem to become intoxicated by their own cruelty.
But if you speak of their vulnerability/fallibility this is deeply threatening, judging by the extreme darvo-like (or severe passive-aggressive) defenses.
Yes, this can certainly be true for a narcissist, especially a malignant narcissist. I think in most dysfunctional family systems though, you will find projection and you will find limited ability to deal with feelings and emotions even without narcissism. And vulnerability feels threatening, especially if it touches their defenses.
So this fear of feelings can result more from possible failures of containment or processing and not from outright abuse or narcissistic attacks or projections? Perhaps from the need to prop up a more fragile family member, a parent for example?
My understanding would be that projections of weakness would be a shaming tactic.
Can you point me to good text to flesh this out further? I feel my understanding of this is one-dimensional.
So, I’m using these definitions as a clinician, and how they show up as defenses. Projection, in this case, is a disowning of something the person cannot tolerate in themselves. It’s fair to say that unless we actually ask a person what they are telling and thinking we are always interpreting. So maybe when we are being empathetic we are interpreting someone’s feeling state, then aligning with it. But empathy actually requires you to ask, understand and as much as you can know about another person’s experience and then be with them and feel with them in that moment. If you are interpreting someone else’s experience, without asking, there is a good chance you are getting it wrong. Projection has a different quality. It’s like a deflection and pushing away. “It’s not me, it’s you.” Do you do see what is there, but you ascribe it to someone else.
For example:
Sarah is secretly jealous of her coworker Lisa's recent promotion. However, Sarah doesn't want to admit these feelings to herself because she considers jealousy a negative trait. Instead of acknowledging her own jealousy, Sarah starts to believe and tell others that Lisa is jealous of her.
In this scenario:
1. Sarah's true feeling: Jealousy towards Lisa
2. Sarah's projection: Believing Lisa is jealous of her
By projecting her own jealousy onto Lisa, Sarah avoids confronting her uncomfortable feelings and maintains her self-image as someone who doesn't experience jealousy.
Let me dive into your questions about narcissists a bit later after my day is over. 😊
This example demonstrates how projection allows people to cope with difficult emotions by attributing them to others, often without realizing they're doing it.
Would you like me to provide more examples or explain the concept of projection further?
So, I have narcissistic parent and if you criticize them they respond by saying “You hate me” or “You want me to die.” Which I take to literally be what their unconscious feeling toward me is.
And then, in ‘projective identification’ terms, by continuing to relentlessly bait and manipulate you do start to feel that way…
I guess the other form of ‘projection’ I was thinking of was more like transference.
Example: my father was always quietly angry at me, or use silence to punish, so when when I encounter someone quiet I fear they are angry with me, etc.
Anyway, I appreciate your generosity! And will not trouble you with more questions.
Though, if you did have any thoughts on the health disparities between narcissists and their targets in relation to the way they may or may not carry burdens of shame/guilt I would be very interested!
Health disparities between narcissists and their targets in relation to carrying burdens of shame and guilt - that’s a GREAT topic for a post!
What you describe regarding your parents’ responses could be a projection, could be projective identification, and is likely related to their deep feelings of toxic shame. At the core is a deep sense of shame that cannot be touched because it feels like annihilation. They lack the ego strength to tolerate criticism. So they project it out.
You are absolutely right that a narcissist cannot hold multiple perspectives, nor can they think or see in shades of grey. There is usually black and white thinking and an all good/all bad split. The bad part gets projected out onto someone else.
What may also be true (but more research is needed) is that narcissists have lower levels of what we call mirror neurons. We know this to be true for psychopaths. Mirror neurons are the building blocks for empathy. And they are developed by being seen, held, reflected - so the reciprocity and back and forth between mother and infant and then later a toddler feeling seen and heard in their feelings, desires, etc. I’m giving you a sloppy description, but ultimately, some people have more mirror neurons than others therefore they are more empathic. But like everything else in a human body there is what you are born with and your environment. So a loving, nurturing caretaker who “sees you” helps your mirror neurons to develop. Mirror neurons help us to understand what another person is thinking/feeling/doing. If we have fewer of them, we don’t do it as well. I imagine this is what allows people to have less of a conscience when they inflict harm on another. But it’s one layer only.
Yeah, that seems to be the rub. If you’re at all empathic it’s difficult to feel into a subjectivity that doesn’t share the same values. Thanks!
Projections are often not conscious processes. They CAN be. So a malignant narcissist or a psychopath may very deliberately project and scapegoat with the intention of inflicting harm. The rest of the world usually isn’t aware they are projecting and it can be quite common. Some people are more prone to projection and others are more prone to introjection, which is taking on someone else’s projection as true. Usually those who are more empathic fall into this category.
And yes, sometimes projection happens to prop up or defend another more fragile family member (this usually becomes scapegoating). So someone who is actually quite strong gets labeled as weak. I think the shaming (and invalidation too!) are inherent in the statement. Whether or not you are projecting, telling someone they are weak is putting them down, and suggesting there is something wrong with them, which is shaming them.
Let me see what I can find regarding good text!
Thanks, I see more where you are coming from now.
Yes, I basically see projections as identifications (I am, you are, this is etc) based on interpretations.
My difficulty in talking about this is that I take all interpretations to be forms of projection that are either correct or mistaken. So I see empathy as based in projections.
When I started, I understood the original meaning: projection is to see what isn’t “there”… but somehow drifted into this other view vis-a-vis Buddhism or brain science.
(I suppose there is also a difference between projecting what “is” or what “could be” the reality in a situation. )
My understanding is that a narcissist is not fully conscious of the harm they do because it is justified by the delusion of being harmed and a victim. This allows them to enjoy harming and not feel even conflicted. Proper empathy would sabotage this unconscious operation.
This inability to feel conflicted forces them to project all the conflict outside into the nearest actors; and these roles are as lacking in nuance as the narcissist’s inability to integrate his or her self-parts etc.
Children are the most receptive to these assigned roles for obvious reasons, and the most damaged by them.
Would you say that the narcissist’s projections are then the evacuated parts of introjects?
Again to minimize internal tension/conflict?
They don’t just minimize, they seem to need to eliminate it entirely.
They don’t ever ‘lose sleep’ thinking they may have wronged someone, but only if they have been wronged…
The weird thing is that, though they seem to identify as “victims,” they don’t suffer in the way many of their victims do, from the physiological symptoms of prolonged stress and internalized shame.
They tend to be hypochondriacs instead, complaining about the most benign and commonplace ailments as if they were life-threatening and narcissist the most cursed for having been ‘targeted.’
Has the shame of the narcissist been transmogrified? Or does the personality form around a void so as to not allow any to ever enter in?
Maria said estrangement above, which has a negative connotation, however, why not treat them (in laws, relatives) in a 'distanced way'? Think of them as you would a friend's family (really, not your problem). The root of the word family is famulus (servant), I feel that women need to protect their space by having as little contact as possible with extended family. It's already hard work enough to deal with spouses in a straight marriage. Honestly, just say no and see them once a year.
I meant, women already do everything for everyone, the thought of wasting time and energy with your in laws makes me cringe. Save your energy for those who really matter.
It felt like a family reunion as I read this post. 🤪
🤣🤣🫶
Absolutely brilliant, Claire. You are spot on with it.
Not only do such people see vulnerability as weakness, they also see it as a golden opportunity to either mould you to their liking while you're open, or to attack you while your sore spots are exposed. And it goes even deeper, I noticed. If you force them to communicate authentically or set boundaries with them, they might covertly punish you at a later stage.
I've come to learn that it's futile trying to do the 'heavy lifting' in their presence. All they'll do is push you over and enjoy the weights collapsing on top of you. Perhaps that's too absolutist of me to say. It's still a work in progress.
Thank you for writing this. And keep up the 'training'!:)
Thanks JH! I had not thought of that - being punished covertly at a later stage for forcing authentic communication or setting boundaries. That’s exactly what happens.
I think you are probably right about not doing the heavy lifting. I see it as engaging in reciprocity. I can do all of the work but only some of the time. If we can’t both share the load, then it’s not healthy l. I’m not willing to pull all of the weight. And I’m especially not willing to be punished for it. But I’m also a work in progress!
One thought I often have is, how far is that person likely to progress with a capable therapist? If the answer is hardly, then what power do I have to progress with them?
Of course when you've know that person for a long period then you might sense you have the rapport to influence them in a positive direction. I've just been burnt too many times. This is most definitely a case of choosing your battles wisely. With what I know now about narcissistic personalities, and how rigid they can be, I'm very selective with my battles, while being mindful that cynicism doesn't take us very far.
Regarding the covert punishment, I'm working on a new article about that. I feel like it's not explored much, mainly because people who partake in it are very patient, and know JUST the right time and the right way to push a button to hurt you. Because it's so far removed from the original 'insult', and because the punishment targets the sorest point they can find, you have no idea what happened. You just wake up from the trigger hours or days later dazed and confused.
I cannot wait to read your next article!
Sometimes rapport can help to influence a person. It’s at the heart of any good therapeutic relationship. And knowing someone well implies there is trust and intimacy. It’s difficult to build that kind of relationship with people who have strong narcissistic tendencies. Therapists rarely see narcissists show up in their offices because they don’t think anything is wrong them. That makes any conflict in the relationships they have pretty unworkable. It also makes it hard to progress in therapy. People show up in therapy because they hurt, and because they understand that something in their lives isn’t working for them, and they are willing, to one degree or another, to explore it and try to change their behavior and/or their situation. It’s pretty amazing to bear witness to it.
I think you are so right about picking your battles. I struggle with this. I will fight every single one and exhaust myself.
It can be difficult to grasp when you are being taken for a ride by someone who has zero interest in being influenced or in changing. The moment it sinks in, which can take years, is enlightening in the most painful possible way.
I imagine therapists have that realisation often with certain clients. My approach is to treat everyone as though they are capable of achieving change on their own. I can provide tips and pointers, but will never emotionally invest myself in their growth. That's up to them.
For those who deeply seek to change and grow, however, coming along with them on that journey is incredibly rewarding. That's where gifts such as yours are so important.
Couldn't help but think while reading this of that scene in the film 'Spencer' where Princess Diana begins eating gigantic pearls from a soup bowl at dinner. That'd be me... (great article - restacking!)
Thanks for the restack Rebecca! Now I need to watch that movie.🍿
Thank you Claire, I needed to read this today ❤️🩹💪
Layered on top of all of this is when you choose to estrange rather than participate (as I did), it brings up more layers of self-worth, guilt, and shame not only from the dysfunctional family system, but from years of societal conditioning.
I am so grateful I am working through it and have found amazing friends who are my family now.
I hear you. I love the way you talk about not participating in it anymore. That's a very empowering way of looking at it. And yes, estrangement can bring up layers of additional negative feelings. I think understanding the process of projection is helpful for creating and taking the space needed to gain perspective and heal.